(no subject)

[syncope]

Hey, I haven't gotten my daily six hours of talking about Inception in yet, wanna help me out with that?



Randomly, talking about something else entirely, stoney321 remarked that Eames was gay.

Anyone else see that in the film? I don't mean slash and how most people reading this want all dudes to gay sex each other (or all the hot ones, whatever), I mean did he come across to you as textually gay?

Now that she said it, I can see it. But within the film as I was reading it, I thought he was just rather eccentric and an actor (which can mean the same thing).

Textually, he has a unique gender identity as he can change that at will. But I meant his sexuality rather than his gender identity.

I am wondering if what so many people are reading as slash vibes might actually be real on his side now.

But Tom Hardy is pretty obsessed with male gender politics and I would actually not be surprised if Eames is the exact reversal of Handsome Bob (you've had to have watched that by now) in that instead of a hype-straight presenting gay man, he's a straight man who because of the nature of his work knows how to be flexible about binaries and really doesn't care what anyone thinks.

Thoughts?



I'm going to hit post before I think at all about how I'm analyzing Tom Hardy's ~art with reflection on how *he'd* perceive things.




All of the totems we know about are gaming related--die, poker chip, chess piece, and top.

I'm sure there's an elaborate theory there. Clearly, it's purposeful.

THIS NEEDS TO GO AWAY, I'M ON THE KINK_MEME TRAWLING FOR A PROMPT!

Comments

[rivers-bend.livejournal.com]

You kind of lost me on the Tom Hardy stuff, because I haven't seen Rock'n'Rolla, but I'm pretty sure I did read Eames as gay. I need to see the movie again (for many reasons) and I had planned to look out for this already, because out of all the fanfic in all the fandoms, even Sherlock Holmes, Eames seems the most natural fit into slash of any character ever (bearing in mind I've never read QaF fic). I definitely read Arthur as canonically queer, though not necessarily gay, and not necessarily having done anything about his boy-lustings. I didn't think as much about Eames at the time, but having thought about him since, yes. I am pretty sure I read him as gay. hmmm. Or probably more homo-leaning bi, because I'm not sure he a) could be doing with labels, or b) could be doing with limiting himself arbitrarily when it came to good times.

interestingly, I have no idea if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you right now. Not that that matters to my opinion ;)

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Oh, let's just say that his character in RnR is just about the polar opposite of Eames.

Well there is no actual answer here, so there's no agreeing or disagreeing. I think that's true with opinions on media in general, but in particular with this film.

Interesting on Arthur. He didn't strike me that way at all. But his sexuality really never occurred to me one way or the other while watching the movie, though.

[handsomespeck.livejournal.com]

He might be legitimately gay (he didn't really vibe any particular way with me, except flirty toward Arthur), but then, he didn't really interact with a lot of women who could have given some context for how he relates to him THEM, god, my typos want him to be queer.

I think it's the straight/knows how to be flexible with things. ~HETEROFLEXIBLE~

Tom Hardy has said that they were allowed to play with their characters or something, so there's totally just cause for analyzing Eames with what TH might have brought to him.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

You can thank me for this post with one full of gifs and quotes from Tommy himself.

This information about developing the characters is fascinating. I wonder how much of Arthur is JGL then? Totally wacko.

But also this is "evidence" that Tommy is sending the world a message about ~masculinity and his soul.

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

I think he's definitely (the character) genderqueer and more subtly queer/bisexual. I think Tom Hardy himself is - maybe more genderqueer than he realizes. At least that's how he comes across.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

I think Tom Hardy knows about his gender identity issues. I could pretend to not have watched the vids and read the interviews, but...there's no point.

He's a pretty fascinating guy, something I never thought I'd say about a myspace camera-whoring chav with bad tattoos.

I think the gender queer aspect of the character is a big part of his role in the film. I'm on the fence with the sexuality still.

[poisontaster]

Short of him actually dating, kissing or having sex with another guy, I don't know what would read as "textually gay" to me. And I'm not saying that just to be political about that, I mean it sincerely. I can see it or not see it with a variety of characters; isn't that the nature of slash goggles, when you get below the tee-hee level of the concept--the ability to see sexuality fluidly, regardless of how 'masculine' or 'feminine' the presentation?

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Yes, of course. There is a liminal area there when talking about intention and perception and how much of X character's Xness is canon and how much it's about the projected views of the audience.

Part of what I'm saying is that I've seen the film a couple times and while I do see the gender queerness (which I think is direct and obvious), I didn't even think that the flirting with Arthur (which I assume was what people saw as gay? Maybe I'm wrong there) was anything beyond him fucking with the guy in a playful way. Like kitten with yarn rather than with actual invitation.

Often enough, I do tend to fall in the more conservative area wrt to textually interpretation than most of fandom, though.

[cobweb-diamond.livejournal.com]

I think he came across as MAYBE gay but definitely a 1930s English luvvie trying to be as upper-class as humanly possible. No one talks like that, darling. Lending credence to the "these characters are ridiculous because they exist only in Cobb's head" theory.

Eames has certainly banged a dude before, though.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

You're first point is one I was trying to make without saying "is this a all Englishmen seem fey to Americans?" issue. I think there's some element of that happening, probably to. I don't mean that as an insult to anyone reading this, just an observation of inculcated stereotyping.

[yakbites.livejournal.com]

He actually doesn't read 100% gay to me (which doesn't mean anything, but whatever), but my entire experience of gay men has been U.S. American or Mexican gay men, so it could be that there are cultural things I'm not picking up on. He could be bisexual, or otherwise queer, but I would totally buy that Eames is just the gayest straight man ever.

TH referred to him as "old money", so it could be just a collection of idiosyncrasies that comes with no one in his family working, ever.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHA Tommy said WHAT? Does he actually say old bean in the movie? He will in the sequel, I promise.

This guy, man. Also, I imagine he's addicted to googling himself...I won't think too much about that.

[azewewish.livejournal.com]

I think Eames is flexible, as in, he'd nail anything that stayed still long enough, male, female, goat. I don't think it matters to him.

I'm still vastly amused that THIS is the film that finally broke Tom Hardy into the big leagues, fandom-wise. I thought for sure it would have been Black Hawk Down (which I think suffered from TOO MANY PRETTY BOYS syndrome - plus, this was when LOTR came out & everyone was all focused on Orlando to the exclusion of everyone else in that film), Layer Cake (which no one saw)or RockNRolla (which, again, no one saw).

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

All the actors in BHW look alike in their field gear, so I'm not surprised that people kind of ignored the movie wrt to fic writing. I think that would be different if the movie came out now, due to the build-in fandom of GK.

Also, idk about no one seeing Layer Cake or RnR. I think if you mean in wider distribution in the US, maybe. In fannish circles? I think quite a few people have seen one or both of the films.

[cathybites.livejournal.com]

There should be a panel about this at Wincon. I'm just sayin'.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Maybe a slide show of Tom Hardy's camerawhore pics?

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Just to make sure people get that I'm not interpreting Hardy as "omg he's so faaaaaaaabulous!" or anything like that. (I don't think you're representing me that way, either, to note.)

There was just something about his character that just informed me that he happened to be a gay man, like how you can interpret someone as probably liking gardening to the same level as you or are a secret member of a fandom you're in. He didn't strike me as a Mary or anything of the sort, just his mannerisms and reactions to the male characters vs. his almost lack of interest of any sort with Ellen Page's characters just read "oh, well, that's because he fancies lads, innit?"

Edited to add that Hardy's interview where he states that obviously he's had gay sex, he's an actor after all, may have colored my viewing.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Scroll up to the mid-20th century stage actor reading. I thought that was pretty interesting. As is Tommy saying that Eames comes from "Old Money"--oi, izat right, Tommy boy? He's some posh, public school fuck, then?"

The above is encouragement.

[iambickilometer.livejournal.com]

I read Eames as gay, yeah. There's the simple point of how he's flirted with almost all of the male characters but never Ariadne or Mal. But I read him like that after he'd only met Cobb, when he was trying to distract the guy chasing him. I was profoundly shocked when Eames didn't start hitting on him. Though I think I didn't read him as flamboyant but rather pretty matter-of-fact about it. I'd also like to add that I didn't insta-ship him with Arthur (it actually took me a second viewing to catch all the subtext between them), though I did almost immediately decide that Cobb/Eames would be a pairing worth looking into. (Not that anyone writes it.)

[nrrrdy-grrrl.livejournal.com]

I saw it and it was so gorgeous- wow. There were so many amazing sequences where there was no dialogue, just music and imagery that made me think: this god damn director is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past all his contemporaries. Like, Kubrick or one of those geniuses who happens to make a blockbuster and then you realizes he's actually a maker of art.

[circury.livejournal.com]

x_x Inception gets mentioned in my Friends page a lot and I still haven't seen it. I keep having to skip your posts because I don't want to get spoiled for it.

[theonlytwin.livejournal.com]

i did read him as gay (and eccentric), simply for flirting over and over with men (one might debate the point seeing as the team was all men but ariadne, but i found the lack of flirting with ariadne more indicative then accidental).

gaming pieces, hmmm. sort of like the big giant spy game that is the movie (which might lean toward the whole movie is a dream reading)? or the child like state of dreaming and dream creation? but the only really child like totem is the top, mal's then dom's, which might be saying something about their approachto dreaming, as something to do with desire, emotion and experimentation, whereas everyone else is driven by economics and power plays.

[reasdream.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one who read the interactions with Arthur as more taunting than flirting?

Not saying I don't see Eames as genderqueer, but the comments he made to Arthur, based on his early comment that A had no imagination, were more of the "I like pissing you off, because I can" sort of thing. Not animosity, maybe underlying flirty, but mostly just having fun giving someone else a hard time.

At least, that's my reading. (because I have totally done that with coworkers)

[darksybarite.livejournal.com]

Perhaps taunting because he knew Arthur WANTED it, but wouldn't try to GET it?

:>

[onelittlesleep.livejournal.com]

I hate to say this, but how much are we reading his very old school, very British-styled insouciance as queer?

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this is where I am, too. I think that was the intent of the acting choices.

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

Eames read as gay to me, without the slash goggles.
I was going to say, I kept expecting him to hit on Fisher in the dream, but then I realize that he *did*. It was telegraphed somehow. I think I'm going to have to watch it again to find out why I thought that. I wasn't really paying that much attention to him, since I was focussed more on the action and plot.

I really want to know what the history is between Arthur, Mal, and Cobb. There's something there, but it's so vaguely expressed. The way Arthur smiled at Cobb when he woke up on the plane was pretty evocative.

ETA: I just saw it a few hours ago for the first time, so it took me a minute to remember that I thought his comments about Arthur were those of the repulsion/attraction type, and his interactions with Arthur somehow registered as, not flirting, but intensely aware of him.