posted by [identity profile] at 11:34pm on 20/09/2012
I think so, too.

Which opens up this whole, vast universe where accidental biting leads to non-con lycanthropy. I mean, it's not like this fandom doesn't love dubcon. Does this mean if you want the bite you could just jab your finger into Derek's mouth and get what you're after? How deep does the bite have to be? How many teeth?

Inquisitive minds.
posted by [identity profile] at 11:38pm on 20/09/2012
I read some long supposition on this somewhere -- whether it was the saliva, or the teeth, or the teeth injecting the saliva and what does that mean for RIMMING -- and no good, logical, based in science conclusions came out of it.


Scott had a HUGE bite. On his side? I don't actually remember any of the others bites.
posted by [identity profile] at 11:42pm on 20/09/2012
My "scientific" answer would be that it's saliva in the blood stream with an infection threshold where you have to pass enough of a chemical in the saliva into the blood stream to get it to take. I suspect the amount of the chemical/enzyme that has to enter the blood varies the same way it does with other diseases where your immunity is unique to you.

I feel like Peter doesn't do anything halfway, which would explain how huge Scott's bite is. But when Derek bit Jackson it was also not small. But Derek didn't like Jackson, either, so maybe he was making him pay.
posted by [identity profile] at 11:45pm on 20/09/2012
I like that answer, it makes sense and doesn't depend on *magic* I'm sick of hand-waving and using magic as an answer to things.

Your answer also explains somewhat how Lydia is 'immune' while the bite normally kills or turns.
ext_230: a tiny green frog on a very red leaf (Default)
posted by [identity profile] at 02:05pm on 21/09/2012
this would be my thinking too, yup.
ravurian: (ravurian brit boy)
posted by [personal profile] ravurian at 06:41am on 21/09/2012
Weren't there rules about consent that Derek was following with his pack? If their consent was important, it suggests that the consequences of non-con turning were impressed upon Derek at some point by his family, which in turn suggests that it's possible. Derek's behaviour seems to indicate a whole canon of unspoken rules that he's trying to follow, stuff that he learned as a kid and so - sort of like religion in that he doesn't always see the point or understand the reasoning - does it anyway (IMO). I'm not sure Derek was all that attentive, tbh, in werewolf church. Maybe he never really paid attention because he was never going to be an Alpha, and now he's all, like, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Maybe Derek is confused about fanon and canon too in that sense: 'what did they say in class vs what do I think I heard'.

And also re: consent - Peter only turned Scott. And yes, yes, Scott didn't consent, but that wasn't the point under discussion. You'd think a mad Alpha might've been turning people left, right and centre on his rampaging if it happened by accident. Instead, he glamoured a nurse, killed his niece, ripped up a bunch of arseholes associated with Kate, bit Scott because he liked his mum, and died, without accidentally turning anyone.

Peter was possessed of the facts about being an Alpha, say, and Derek only had the rote-religion-wasn't-listening version?

(So, yes - the Alpha's consent to a point, but, you know, instinct is bound to drive them too, and hormones, and possibly dumbness and alcohol. The Gerard situation is hardly indicative, since there are issues there about timing - biting gives him time to act while Gerard is in throws of changing etc).
posted by [identity profile] at 05:11pm on 21/09/2012
I'm not entirely certain about Derek having some kind of turning consent rules of conduct. I mean, did Isaac volunteer? Did any of the three of the ones who took actually have ANY idea what was going on? I really don't think so. He basically said "I can fix this bad thing for you" is what it seems like happened.

I'm completely ready to entertain your idea that the Hale pack had serious morals about turning people and consent that Derek grew up being inculcated with, but that would be fanon, too *laughs* I like the idea as a matter of fact, which would make Peter even WORSE.

Maybe he never really paid attention because he was never going to be an Alpha, and now he's all, like, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. While fanon, I think this skates pretty close to canon. Peter clearly knows more than Derek, and it's unclear if it's because he's older or if Derek was too busy playing video games and fucking Kate to have clued in.

I'm pretty suspicious of the consent issue because of Gerard and Scott, but I love everything else you have to say.
posted by [identity profile] at 11:32am on 21/09/2012
See, this is why I thought Derek hadn't bit Alison's mother. I thought it was some long-game plot on Gerard's part--I kept expecting a reveal. Cause it doesn't actually make sense for him to have intentionally turned her. It only makes sense if he can unintentionally turn people in the heat of the moment.
posted by [identity profile] at 08:43pm on 21/09/2012
It's pretty clear he accidentally turned Victoria.

It's really easy to get fanon and canon mixed up in this kind of synergistic fandom.


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